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Talk:Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy)

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ISO code

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There appears to be an ISO 3166 code in the infobox. I haven't found a way to remove it. I don't think they had ISO codes back then. Am I missing something or could/should this be removed from the infobox? Midwood123 (talk) 09:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 August 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. In the support column were arguments that the proposed title is the WP:COMMONNAME here. However, the opposers argued that the proposed title is ambiguous and too vague. There were also several alternate proposals raised throughout the course of the RM, though there is no consensus which of them is preferred over the others, or whether any of the opposers support the alternate proposals. (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) 16:04, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy)United Monarchy – The subject of this page is a postulated political entity most prevalently referred to in scholarship as the "United Monarchy". This term's prevalence in scholarship is demonstrated in a search of "Kingdom of Israel" and "United Monarchy" together in Google Scholar - which sees "United Monarchy" almost invariably come out on top in the title. Even imagining that "United Monarchy" is not the most prevalent term for the subject, it would still be a naturally disambiguated title, which, per WP:NCDAB, is preferred over a parenthetically disambiguated one (which is unconcise by its nature, as rather effectively exemplified here). "United Kingdom of Israel" is also a frequent term in scholarship, but if we compare the general usage of the two terms, "United Monarchy" comes out clearly on top in Ngrams. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:21, 18 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 11:41, 27 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 19:17, 3 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. EggRoll97 (talk) 00:24, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Necrothesp. 'United Monarchy' could have way more implications other than this. PadFoot2008 (talk) 04:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment: Final relist, in the hope of increasing participation and generating a clear consensus BilledMammal (talk) 19:17, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support WP:COMMONNAME. Emolu (talk) 16:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The article was originally called United Monarchy until it was moved in 2009 with edit summary "the article is exclusively about the Kingdom of Israel not arbitrary united monarchies" by an editor with strong (and apparently incorrect) opinions about the Kingdom of Israel. While a search does throw up one or two cases of "united monarchy" referring to some other use case, nearly all refer to this particular instance therefore there is no real confusion for which a hatnote would not suffice if needed.Selfstudier (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 October 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. As seen in the prior move discussion just above, some people object to the current title but agreement still can't be reached on a new name. EdJohnston (talk) 02:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy)United Kingdom of Israel – Following the rejection of the WP:COMMONNAME for this topic, i.e. United Monarchy, at the previous discussion, the next best option is the alternative name sometimes used for the topic - one that also dispenses with the ghastly parenthetical disambiguation, and which, while only a distant runner up to United Monarchy in terms of actual scholarly usage, is also preferable, as a form of natural disambiguation, over the parenthetical disambiguation, per WP:NCDAB. Examples of the scholarly usage can be found here. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:02, 16 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Oppose The existing title has held tight for almost 20 years (minus the slight interregnum period where it was changed to just “United Monarchy”). There is no prevailing pressure to change this once again outside of a single-editor driven effort here.
That said, “United Kingdom of Israel” is definitely a less clunky title. Would need more editors to chime in here in terms of preference and general consensus on necessity on this proposed move.
Mistamystery (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
NB: the page actually began at the title of "United Monarchy" (following the sources) before being moved to the present title without discussion in 2009 accompanied by a very muddled summary. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not entirely accurate. Title edits between 2005 and 2009 were varied. (It held for a period as “The United Monarchy (United Kingdom of Israel and Judah or just Kingdom of Israel” Mistamystery (talk) Mistamystery (talk) 19:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm talking about the actual page title, not just what was randomly written in the first sentence regardless of what was present in the page title. Lead changes aren't page moves. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Plenty of sources use the term, and it's much smoother than the current title. It might have been the same for a while now, but I don't think it would hurt anything to change it. Jacksonmcdonald3425 (talk) 00:59, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as the kingdom’s title was not “United Kingdom of Israel”, but simply “Kingdom of Israel”. Any qualifiers need to be in parentheses as elsewhere on Wikipedia 2600:100F:B096:C0F9:848B:76FC:8601:CC75 (talk) 23:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Palestine in infobox

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From recent edits, I see there's disagreement over the inclusion of Palestine in the "today" section of the infobox. This seems like a reasonable inclusion, since the point is to show what current jurisdictions have land that was once thought to be the Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy). Let me suggest discussing here rather than reverting etc. ProfGray (talk) 11:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anachronisms

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@Joseph Imperial: I don't know why Yiddish and Israelis would belong in the 10th century BCE. "Israeli" means a citizen of the modern state of Israel (i.e. 1948 or later). Yiddish originated in the 9th century CE, and it is a Germanic language. tgeorgescu (talk) 08:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... and there was no Judaism there. Maybe there was polytheistic Yahwism, but Judaism appeared centuries later. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why has the picture been changed? Without changing the caption or any discussion?

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Looks like vandalism Nohorizonss (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This picture is just a kingdom juxtaposed over the twelve tribes . If we were to go by the primary biblical sources that it would extended from Syria to the brook of egypt. I would like the older artistic picture to be restored. Nohorizonss (talk) 08:02, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]